gph
2:29 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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There are very few countries on Earth which have both above average income (measured by the national mean) and religiosity (measured by average number of times a day an adult prays).
Of the 102 studied here,
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/08/americans-are-far-more-religious-than-adults-in-other-wealthy-nations
the US was the only one.
(I'm guessing they left out Saudi Arabia, or included the income of non-nationals there).
Of course, the survey says nothing about whether lack of wealth causes religiosity or vice versa (outside the US). My guess is the former.
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Sussex_IRONS
2:17 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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Coffee
To an extent, but being involved with churches and plant churches in my youth, they had little success with working classes even in cities they struggled, near every church I worked with was dominated by rich middle-class types.
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ironsofcanada
2:14 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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Coffee 2:04 Sat Aug 31
The church i have gone to here in Oxford, has a majority percentage of professors and students (adults at least)
Who knew?
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Coffee
2:04 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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Sussex_IRONS 2:02 Sat Aug 31
Surely church-goers reflect the area where the church is located?
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Sussex_IRONS
2:02 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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I would agree with that in America but I don't think that's true in the UK Mike. Churches are often overwhelmingly middle-class to upper-middle-class, I've never ever met one working-class person that goes to church. It tends to be well to do people with good jobs. Look at people like Jacob Rees-Mogg I don't like the guy but he far more intelligent than your average joe.
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Mike Oxsaw
1:34 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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Mike Oxsaw 1:22 Sat Aug 31
And as for church goers vs the general level of population/atheist intelligence, to me, that just serves as an example to show how deep the national indoctrination actually is.
In fact, it probably underlines the fact that church goers are more backward looking and reluctant to accept change even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
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Mike Oxsaw
1:22 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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WHU(Exeter) 1:06 Sat Aug 31
They weren't always religious - something as homogeneous as that had to be imposed from above to be as it is now.
Much easier to do when populations are smaller, less educated and living on the breadline - hand-to mouth. I suspect that's how Islam gained such a hold in what is now Malaysia and Indonesia - where it has no place.
Trying to integrate Islam with western(ised) religeon (through (mass) immigration/birth rates) is no different to a government in the west declaring that it is going to re-introduce, on a mandatory basis, customs and practices for the whole population from half a millennium ago.
I don't want to go back to doing things the way we did half MY lifetime ago, let alone half a millennium.
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WHU(Exeter)
1:06 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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*would not display
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WHU(Exeter)
1:06 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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Well then Mike, as those places are very much the majority religious, I'd guess the best place to test Wiltell's assertion that religious people are less educated than atheists would be in a place that's split. Like here in Britain.
As said below, I doubt that any such comparison has been made, but my hunch would be that a congregation at a Church in this country would display any less levels of intelligence than a cross section of atheists. In fact my money would likely be on the opposite.
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Mike Oxsaw
12:59 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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WHU(Exeter) 10:29 Sat Aug 31
You try living and working amongst them. It's indoctrination, pure and simple.
I've spent the last 30 months working in what the west considers one of the more advanced Arab states (Thanks, for that, westerners; everyone here really appreciates it, you condescending cunts).
Even the apparently more educated ones here fall back on their "god" at the first sigh of a problem - and more often than not will simply declare it's God's will that it should be that way", then just leave it. I experienced similar in Malaysia & Indonesia, but not Thailand or Singapore.
If the west managed to "move away" from it's indoctrination centuries ago, what's preventing the Muslim nations from doing so?
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WHU(Exeter)
10:29 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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WIlltell, I would contest that view every day of the week.
Indoctrination from birth in parts of the world you are on about yeah that's right and it was the same for the vast majority of everybody living in the western world until a few centuries ago as well. They would still indoctrinate (although some would use the words 'introduce to') from birth because it's what they consider to be a most important truth and way of living, so they therefore want their offspring to follow suit. Now that 'truth' that they may believe in may be not be the ultimate truth, but that doesn't necessarily make those people uneducated when it comes to any number of other things.
Here in the western world we've moved away from that to a large extent, but using your logic the average intelligence of say a congregation on a Sunday at your nearest church would by your equation be noticeably less than a cross section of a gathering of people where the vast majority were atheists?....I'm not sure if that has actually been tested, but my money would be your assertion being incorrect.
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gph
10:24 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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Ages ago, a mate of mine got a mother and son JW doorstepping pair arguing between themselves.
A marvellous achievement.
He asked about obedience to the government when the government wants to put you into a concentration camp.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
9:58 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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norwaytips 7:08 Fri Aug 30
Arms manufacturers don't have any scientists working for them? Blimey!
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Willtell
9:42 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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"Saying that most people who have faith are uneducated is a bit of a broad sweeping brush, same as me saying that people who gush at a programme presented by professor Brian Cox are mostly as thick as pig shit.
-----------------------
It really isn't anything like Prof Brian Cox TV programme watchers being thick as pig shit mate.
Where are the hotbeds of religious worship on the planet? Any area you care to mention and I will show the barely civilised, indoctrinated from birth, religious sects...
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Bungo
9:39 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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cholo 9:33 Sat Aug 31
That's very interesting. I had not considered that potential reason for the Jehovah door canvassing, but it makes perfect sense.
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cholo
9:33 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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Unwitting Jehovah's are sent out to proselytise by the church leaders, not so much to recruit potential converts, that rarely happens. But to strengthen their own beliefs and commitment to the church. It's a psychological tactic played on its own members in order to nurture loyalty and quell doubt and discontent.
All Abraham based religions are an obvious scam but I don't think there's a more obvious scam than the church of the jehova witness.*
*apart from mormonism, probably.
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arsene york-hunt
3:02 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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A bloke knocked at my door this morning wanting to talk about God. I asked him in an incredulous tone, if he seriously believed in God, I then told him that my kids used to believe in Father Christmas, but grew out of it. I thanked him for calling and swiftly closed the door.
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Hermit Road
1:59 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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crystal falace 2:23 Fri Aug 30
What has believing in God got to do with not wanting people to kill healthy babies? Lots of atheists don’t like people killing healthy babies either.
That’s just odd.
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gph
1:10 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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Pretty sure hunter-gatherers were pretty diverse in all sorts of ways.
I've read that some groups entirely excluded women from hunting, others restricted them to hunting small mammals, and yet others allowed women to hunt anything alongside the men, going so far as producing bows and spears in two sizes - man-size and woman-size.
For example.
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WHU(Exeter)
12:40 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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TIps, I am not sure of the veracity of this, but have read that there are some anthropologists who are of the opinion that there were indigenous tribes who believed in 'one God' as opposed to a multitude of gods associated with natural elements WAY before the agricultural revolution.
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gph
12:27 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
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Zeb: the father-in-law of a friend of mine was a non-believing CofE vicar.
After he lost his faith, he saw his job as bringing comfort to people.
Although this stinks of rationalisation to me - needed the money, thought he was on a cushy number would have been more honest.
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